JTS - badania testowe dla ustalenia parametrów - prośba o wzięcie udziału w testach.

[Majka]

- ECU nie daje napięcia sygnałowego na sondę. Odbiera je.
- co chcesz zmierzyć na sondzie?

A możesz coś dla mnie sprawdzić(?)

[TooToo]

- ECU nie daje napięcia sygnałowego na sondę. Odbiera je.
- co chcesz zmierzyć na sondzie?

A możesz coś dla mnie sprawdzić(?)

odnośnie napięcia to jest tam, dziś zmierzyłem 0,455V a na sondzie sprawdzić można grzałkę - oporność na białych przewodach.
Wiem że chciałaś wykresy ale mam MESa 3.6 forum fiata i się zawiesza jak chce nagrać wykres. Darmowa wersja 3.9 nie ma problemów tylko że 4 parametry to max. Jakiego MESa używasz ?

Taki mały wykres zrobiłem w alfaOBD zobacz co się działo z tą sondą i jak zwykle po jakimś czasie spadło napięcie do 0.001v.


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[Majka]

Ja mam 3,8 chyba, ale to bez znaczenie. Możesz wziąć jakikolwiek, producent nic nie zmienił dla JTSa.

- pokazujesz, to mniej więcej co było w logach .txt, więc nie mam co pisać więcej,
- sonda 2 za katem nie pracuje poprawnie, już pisałam, od tego 0,01 na jałowym nie wyrzuca wg mnie błędu, w open loop mało monitoruje, dlatego na postoju rzadko one wyrzucają błędy,

- ale nie podobały mi się też parametry adaptacyjne i napięcia na pre-cat przed katalizatorem, a nie wiem czy sterownik zatrzymał je na takim poziomie ze względu na błąd. Nie są poprawne. Pokaż je i integrator lambda pre-cat. Jak napisałam, może niezależnie, ale póki nie zobaczę jak pracuje silnik, nie oceniam. Zasada jest prosta – trzeba się zapoznać z samochodem, inaczej można popełnić błąd.
- miernikiem nie badam, dla tej instalacji dla większości czujników i aktuatorów miernik jest niebezpieczny. Nawet grzanie realizuje przebiegiem, ładnie widać na prądowym, o ile pamiętam i chyba robi to periodycznie. Raz badałam oporność na przepustnicy, przy błędach potencjometru. Nie było wskazań, by badać, bo napięcia w teście były poprawne, ale… Wykres prądowy rozwiewał wątpliwości. Sterownik po rozruchu monitoruje obwód grzania. Ale jak sprawdziłeś - to jaka była oporność, ok, czy nie ok?

- na którym monitorze się wywala, gdy wyrzuca błąd?
- test spalin?
- jak wyglądają świece i lambda po wyjęciu?

- aOBD robi zapis logu do pliku – po prostu zaznacz, zapisz i wrzuć.

[TooToo]

Rezystancja grzałki 10-12ohm na rozgzanym silniku(nie wiem czy temp ma na to wplyw)

wczorajszy log z alfaobd:

___________________________
Reading faults for: Injection Bosch Motronic MeD7.11 EOBD
___________________
Faults reported:

16/01/2018 14:00:03
No faults reported by the unit.
___________________
___________________________
Reading faults for: Injection Bosch Motronic MeD7.11 EOBD
___________________
Faults reported:

16/01/2018 14:06:45
Accelerator pedal: OK
Throttle at idle or wide open: No
Throttle idle opening after limitation: No
Throttle body: OK
No faults reported by the unit.
___________________
Engine startup: Allowed
Injection control unit: Programmed
Electronic key: Absent
Universal code: Not enabled
Dedicated line: Not present
Odometer, km: 92870,40
Number of overrevs: 255
Max engine speed counter, msec: 615300
Max RPM reached: 7200
Number of flash ROM rewrites: 1
Odometer at last rewrite: 0,00 km
Brake pedal light: Off
Brake pedal: Released
Set Cruise deceleration(-): Not requested
Set Cruise acceleration(+): Not requested
Cruise switch: Off
Cruise restore button(RCL): Released
Mixture preparation mode: Stratified
Modular manifold: Long
Cooling fan 1: Not active
Cooling fan 2: Not active
Detonation check: Not activated
Key position: MAR
Clutch pedal: Released
Brake pedal: Released
Conditioner enable request: Not activated
Conditioner compressor: Not activated
Engine status: Idle
Cut-off status: Not activated
Engine warm-up: ==
Phase variator: Off
Modular manifold control: On
Lambda 1 status above catalyzer: Open loop
Lambda 2 status above catalyzer: Open loop
Catalyzer 1 warm-up: Not active
Lambda 1 status below catalyzer: Open loop
Lambda 2 status below catalyzer: Open loop
Evaporation control valve: Active
Control Unit Power Supply: Absent
Catalyzer 1: Present
Anti-skid (ASR): Present
Automatic transmission: Absent
Engine shut-down from automatic gearbox: Not requested
Failure warning lamp: Off
Throttle position learning: Deactivated
Throttle learn results: Correct
Throttle learn status: Enabled
Throttle learn storage: ...in progress
Throttle learn inhibit: No
Acceleration pedal movement: None
Safety cut-off: None
Cut-off (motorized throttle): None
Throttle power supply: OK
Recovery (throttle error): None
Recovery (torque reduction): None
______________________
___________________________
Reading faults for: Injection Bosch Motronic MeD7.11 EOBD
___________________
Faults reported:

16/01/2018 14:07:30
No faults reported by the unit.
___________________

[Majka]

- W moim samochodzie – prąd w obwodzie grzania, gdy kiedyś badałam na sprawnej 0,9-1,6A, zależnie od temp. Pewnie ma związek z temp. spalin, tyle, że jest tylko model. Może z tego powodu należy sprawdzać na zimym, co nie zmienia faktu, że sterownik sprawdza również, w nieciągłym monitorze.
- Przy błędach lambda warto zobaczyć. Monitory są b. wygodne, szkoda, że JTS ma ich tak mało. Oszczędzają czas.
- zamiana bankami powinna wykluczyć sondę lub potwierdzić sondę.

[Emir]

[lang=en]Hey!

I see that on this forum are many experts for 2.0 JTS engine.
I'm from Croatia, and here nobody can tell me what the problem is. I have changed all sensors, injector, ecu, revised engine... nothing helpd.
I have some problems with the engine (no power, negative fuel trims, petrol smell out of exhaust), and i guss high engine load, about 40% at idle.

Can enyvone tell if this normal or not, and what can it be?

Than a lot!

Emir [/lang]

[Majka]

(?) …No faults from ECU… (?)

What is a value of negative fuel trim correction for all engine? Is the same for bank1 and bank2 or different?

I think, that you should count fuel trim of engine in various engine operating states using scripts of scanxl or following algorithms:
A=(shft1 + ltft1)
B=(shft1 + ltft2)
A+B=(shft1 + ltft1) - (shft2 + ltft2)
== ?

Why?

Engine FT analysis is the first important step for sensitive diagnosis of cars with problems associated with fuel trim abnormalities.

?

If car problem is strongly associated with high negative fuel trim of all engine, then you can go to next questions (steps), for example:
- What is a fuel pressure - correct or wrong?
- What is a oscilloscope waveform of MAF?
- What is a waveform of engine torque at idle, during acceleration and deceleration?
- ?

High values of loadPCT and MAF can be caused by vacuum leak in the intake system or engine (incorrect dynamic compression, camshaft timing). It depends usually on the evolution of the value of fuel trim on banks. Especially, comparison between shft and lhft may be very helpful for differential diagnosis (intake system vs engine).

Presented parameters on screen were logged only after start of engine using alfaOBD software. We can see only few seconds of engine idling without crucial parameters. Without lambda sensors? Why? And thus can be nonspecific for lack of engine power and noniformative as only one test.

But … spark advance is abnormal, is too early for this engine at idle… This is in my opinion a bad prognostic factor

Normal values of MAF and loadPCT for this engine at idling should be typically in ab. 4-5 g/s and 4%, respectively.

[Emir]

[lang=en]Majka, thank you VERY MUCH for answering.

I have occasionally faults P0420 and P0430 catalytic converters, and only one time was P1173 Mixture strenght. No other faults Engine was completly reassembled before 2 month due the problems with lack of power. Power lack is on untill 2800 RPM, from 2800RPM car has normal power???

In last 2 years the following is replaced:
Engine ECU
New injectors
RPM sensor
Cam shafts
Variator
Cam position sensor
Thermostat + coolant sensor
Two upstrem 02 sensors
Detonation sensor
Variable intake manifold with valve
All coil packs
Maf sensor
Catalytic converter (used, not new)
Throttle body
Fuel pressure sensor
Fuel pressure regulator

I will write parameters from Multiecuscan, i can'post print screen because it' on Croatian, no English
Fuel trim are:
FRA 1: 1.05
FRA 2: 1.07
DTV 1: -6,2
DTV 2: -6,0

Fuel pressure on idle is 50 Bar, at acceleration goes up to 101 Bar.
Engine Load is on idle 30-40
Mass air folow (throttle closed): 6,1 Kg/h
Air quantity: 19,8Kg/h
Spark advance ON MULTICEUSCAN IS: 0,0 deg ???
Lambda sensor voltage: Upstream : 2,5V
Downstream: 0,45
All parameters on idle, engine temperature 80C

Compression test after engine reasembly on all cylinder oabout 12,5 bar, I don't know is this test same as dynamic compression?
I will post printscreen from all parameter with Multiecuscan on English, and test intake for leckage.

I have noticed that Variable intake manifold is always on Long, at idle too (on test with Multiecuscan is switching), but in Elearn is explaned that on idle should be short ducts, and I see on this forum that on the other cars on idle is in Long possition. I'm confused now.

DOES ANYWONE HAVE ALL (CORRECT) PARAMETERS ON IDLE WITH MULTIECUSCAN, FOR COMPARE??
On first page are all parameters from Cuoreventi, but there is engine load 33,5, and I don't know if these parameters are then correct or not?


Thaks[/lang]

[Majka]

- So, I think that your engine trim is positive ...
- LongFT should be the same on bank1 and bank2.
- Maybe your ECU said i.e. p1173multi (acceleration), p1173add (deceleration)?
- Your car can be a standard case: air leak between MAF and TP and/or engine in poor condition.
- Sorry, I don’t believe… Can you show your logs, and other engine tests?

[Emir]

[lang=en]Tomorow morning i will scan logs, and all parameters, and than post.
Yes, long fuel trims are not the same -6,2 -6,0, i don't know why. I was told that the car is becoming to much fuel, and to little air, and for that reason LF trim is negative -6. Why do you think the fuel trim is positive, and what that' mean then?
Error was P1173 ADITTIVE Light always come up only when i cruze, slowly drive with RPM around 2000. When I'm driving fast (more than 3000 RPM) light never come up.
Engine is in very good condition, it all new, piston rings, bearing, valves, tappets, injector...
I've check for leak betwen MAF and throttle body, and seal all conections, but nothing changed, and i i haven't foun any leak (inlet, and exhaust gaskets are new)

Thanks[/lang]